Much of this meeting was taken up with discussion about the council’s proposal to outsource management of Pools on the Park and Teddington Pool, but there were two events relating to the health suite.
Firstly we took the opportunity to gain clarity on what this ‘full feasibility study’ actually means:
And this was the written response from Matthew Eady:
Thanks for your email and apologies for the delay in responding.
In response to your two queries.
The ‘alternative site’ relates to within the demise of Pools on the Park.
Initial feasibility work has been undertaken as advised at committee on the 7 November 2023 and when we met on the 21 December 2023.
Regards
Matthew
and we responded:
Thanks for your reply. I am pleased to hear that the location confusion from the meeting has been resolved.
I asked this question because it felt like the only factor that had been looked at before the 07/11/23 meeting was ‘high energy use’.
It would be very useful to know exactly what factors will be considered in the full feasibility study that has been committed to. Do you have a list?
and Matthew Eady replied with:
Further feasibility work for Pools on the Park and the wider leisure infrastructure will be considered in the next few months.
Err what? More non-answer vagueness, so yet another FOI request has now been filed.
A few minutes later was the second health suite event when Cllr Chas Warlow raised concerns about the decision making process (although it is very frustrating that the opposition party are not calling for the ESCSC decision to be scrutinised given the circumstances):
Cllr Julia Neden-Watts
Do we have any matters to be referred to the Policy and Performance Review Board? Now we’ve sort of covered that, haven’t we? Is that? [inaudible] Okay. But the one that arose from this meeting was the point about sustainability and… which we’ve captured. So we do have something. Councillor Warlow.
Cllr Chas Warlow
I’ll try to be quick. As the committee members know, at the last full council, I was going to be bringing a motion to ask, well, this committee in the end to review the decision to, or review, not the decision, sorry, the process that was undergone in that decision to, not replace the health suite at Pools on the Park.
I wanted that to be reviewed to either the Policy and Performance Review Board or to the Audit Committee, on the grounds that I feel that the engagement process with members of the public, particularly members of the health suite and users was… well, lacking in openness and transparency, particularly in regards to requests for information that were withheld repeatedly, and misapplication of the law on freedom of information by the Council.
And it’s more about the approach of the council to residents, in that there was this repeated withholding of information, of quite a banal nature, a survey of members that had been carried out subsequent to the council’s decision that refurbishment needed to be carried out on the, on the health suite, and it asked members if they wanted a sustainably, sorry, environmentally sustainable, health suite refurbishment, and then that, those results were not released until only a few days before our committee meeting on the 7th of November.
And I do question the approach to members of the public and and members of the, of that leisure facility. And I think it just raises a question that needs to be reviewed, because if this is the approach that we’re taking, okay, it may just have been a one off, but if that approach is taken on other decisions, I think it’s a very poor one. I think it needs to be looked at whether PPRB is the right place for it. I’m not really sure, it could be, it could be that Audit Committee is the best place for that.
I think the length of time taken for the decision also raises questions. You know, why did it take so long to come to that decision? Also, the leisure strategy…
Cllr Julia Neden-Watts
Councillor Warlow, I think we’ve grasped the nub of your point, we are fortunate to have the Vice Chair of the Policy Performance Review Board with us. And I’ve, I’ve watched the, the meeting that you had, so I know that they discussed this there. Your colleague, Councillor Wren raised this, so I presume you’ve spoken to her. Anyway, let’s go to Councillor Gant because she may have something helpful to say.
Cllr Elizabeth Gant
Yeah, I just wanted to… the PPRB is probably in a position to consider the matter around the consultation, or consultations on single issues in general. I think it’s felt that it’s not the role of the PPRB, and Hilary Gullen will hopefully report back to us fairly soon on, on, on whether this is possible, but we feel it’s not the role of the PPRB to conduct a kind of post-mortem on the decision, to revisit the decision. I know you’re not asking for that or to, or to take a lessons learned. So I believe that would be more appropriately considered by the Audit Committee. So that’s where you would need to take that forward.
But the PPRB will, it looks like, be looking at the, the consultation process, in relation to single issues in relation to single issues. So not… so for example, this one and the Richmond town centre one. But we can’t sort of do, as I say, a post-mortem on the consultation even here. I think that’s for Audit. Sorry,
Cllr Chas Warlow
I’m not really clear whether or not PPRB is looking into this.
Cllr Julia Neden-Watts
Okay. If I, if I may my, my understanding and I discussed this with Kathryn Thomas, our clerk, before the meeting. Is that PPRB would willingly consider reviewing how the council consults, engages, responds to residents. Generally. Not as a single issue. I mean, the single issue being how does the council engage, respond to residents?
PPRB cannot, unpick, remake the decision that this committee has validly made.
Cllr Chas Warlow
That’s not what I’m asking.
Cllr Julia Neden-Watts
If there is, if there’s something to do with the process that needs to be looked at, that is for Audit Committee. Is that clear? Is that okay?
Cllr Chas Warlow
Yes. It’s clear. Thank you. But I don’t know what is the process that goes, that happens next. Is it that this….
Cllr Julia Neden-Watts
So the chair of the PPRB is speaking to Democratic Services about what to do next,
Cllr Chas Warlow
Okay.
Cllr Julia Neden-Watts
And possibly also with the Chair and Vice Chair of Audit. Is that correct?
Kathryn Thomas
Yeah.
Cllr Julia Neden-Watts
So all of those — Chair and Vice Chair of Audit, Democratic Services and the Chair of the PPRB will decide amongst them the appropriate course of action for each of those things.
Cllr Chas Warlow
That means this committee is not involved any longer in that.
Cllr Julia Neden-Watts
In making that as the Chair of this committee, I’m acknowledging that I think that’s a pretty sensible way forward. I don’t know whether any other committee member wishes to say “no that’s a silly idea,” but… are we generally in agreement that that would be a suitable way forward at this stage?
Cllr Alan Juriansz
When we make a decision, we make a decision.
Cllr Julia Neden-Watts
Yeah.
Cllr Chas Warlow
But that’s not what… that’s really not what I’m asking for.
Cllr Julia Neden-Watts
Okay. It’s now 1030 and I have to conclude the meeting. We’ve made all the decisions we need to make, I believe. Okay. Thank you. And sorry to rush you all at the end there, but thank you very much for your perseverance.
Everyone clear on what’s happening?